She makes a good point with the economics and the privacy issues.
I wonder about the economics of CDs and vinyl, and whether that's a possibility for a DIY artist (which most artists are today). A lot of us still have CD players, and records players have made a comeback. Some people have massive vinyl collections.
I regret loading my CDs onto Apple Music and then selling them. Mistake!
Personally, from my point of view, as a artist (albeit very part-time and low profile now) I’d rather make 50 real connections with real people (selling my vinyl, CD, cassette, T-shirt — so physical merch), than constantly monitor my Spotify streams hoping they may one day reach 100,000, without any real connection with any of those 100,000… The idea that someone bought and owns and (hopefully) enjoys something I created is much gratifying on so many levels, in particular — connection.
If I think back to the first phase of digital, when it became possible to store and play audio files (so songs/albums), the key attractor for me personally was the de-cluttering part of this — not having to store hundreds or thousands of cassettes, vinyl and CDs. It was definitely a trade-off because from word go my ears could hear the difference between an analogue recorded vinyl album and a digitally recorded CD, the latter had a harsh sonic crunch that I found uncomfortable to listen to. Also I liked the interference you got from a stylus on vinyl, not so much the hiss on low quality cassettes (but this you could manage with metal tape, Dolby and a calibratable deck).
Now my hearing is pretty shot, especially hi-end frequencies, so bring it on, give me those hissy cassettes, I probably won’t notice 😂 🤷♂️
Thanks for that personal take. I've thought about going back to vinyl, but can I ask if there's a difference between old vinyl records and the new ones they're putting out? Are they issuing the same version or a remastered version?
I'm wondering if it's worth it to pay extra for an old version from a quality and authenticity viewpoint. I've seen some in second-hand stores but they can be pricey.
Ditto here on the hearing front -- I've got tinnitus in one ear so I hear hissing anyway.
On the sonic quality question. I think you have to do it on a case-by-case basis.
A lot of remastered albums are absolutely terrible! Some are amazing! Sorry that I can’t give a finite answer on that. As a rule of thumb I’d go for the original. Remastering can mean that an original analogue master that was specifically mastered for vinyl has been digitally remastered for CD. On a CD there is literally (almost) no limitation on loudness or bandwidth — so the remastered audio could be a lot louder, bassier, brighter, fuller than the original. It could also have a lot of harsh digital artefacts. Probably you and I can’t now here these, but your body will definitely feel them.
Nowadays (so 2024) digital mastering is much better than in 2010 (around which time so many albums were remastered).
Also it depends on what you listen to your music on? What quality system you have (eg quality of analogue/digital converters)? What speakers you have? How loud you listen? Maybe you only use headphones?
One solution (but it is a real techy/expensive solution) is something like SoundID Reference (Google it)— basically it’s a microphone and software that you use to tune and tailor your system’s speaker and headphone output to the room you listen in, it calibrates the speakers so their response is totally flat in the room you listen in (same for most pro-level headphones).
This is crucial to hearing what a song/piece of music really sounds like! I use it, it’s great. It even can compensate for my hearing loss (eg boost the frequencies I struggle to hear). Like I said — expensive and techy, but it works!
I should also add, this question also depends upon what the original mastered track was intended for?!?! A lot of singles were mastered and cut for radio airplay, which quite often had a very restricted acoustic range in terms of sound frequencies. So the track would be masters to sound good/passable in that restricted sonic zone on a small speaker. It may sound terrible on, for example, night club speakers
The same (but opposite) is true for dance music designed for club speakers not a small FM radio!
Again, I think the only way is to listen to each remastered track/album and see if you personally prefer it! 🤷♂️ .
Never thought of this before (a single's a single's a single), but I wonder if, Nic, a U.S. white label promo 45 (meant for labels to service radio) was separately pressed to be (as you say) compressed for the (mostly) car speakers they were, largely, going to be heard through.....and,
retail-specific singles were, then, pressed with multiple, at-home plays in mind. If I were to take a stab at a cost-efficient answer, I'd guess they were all pressed in the same plant, with just one of two possible labels slapped on (white promo or standard-issue street label).
But, your answer made me question that approach: As we know (and, as I can vouch for selling my collection of albums and 45s 2 dozen years ago), a white label promo anything held a noticeable premium for collectors....because far fewer were pressed than the retail version.
There is no definitive answer to this, however, here are some guidelines. All relating to vinyl
Mostly 12” LPs were mastered for average home HiFi speakers (mostly, some LPs were mastered for large super high quality enthusiast speaker systems...)
So a white label of an LP would probably be the same as the commercial version.
Most singles (taken from an album) would have different compression, equalisation, and possibly even length (so usually shorter) to the LP version. They were still aimed at average home HiFi Speakers, but because they ran at 45rpm (not 33rpm) on a 7” disc there was usually a bit less volume and frequency bandwidth available (so singles were shorter, quieter, and possibly not with such a full range of frequencies as the LP version).
Quite often a single 45 7” white label would be the same mastering as the single. BUT not always — as you say sometimes there was an even shorter version for radio DJs, sometimes with a shorter intro, no solo, and no outro fade so the DJ could fade or crossfade themselves. Quite often these shorter white labels had much more compression, were louder, and had a really narrow broadcast frequency range (think old school car speakers).
This changed quite a bit in the mid to late 80s. The trend to do multiple mixes of a single started.
Also club music started to really become a thing. So there were specific mixes aimed at huge club speaker systems. Usually on 12” 45rpm, so much longer, louder, with wider frequency range. So these white labels were aimed at club DJs (not radio).
Around the same time there were also 7” single 45rpm white labels done of a single for club DJs, promo copies, to get them to test the track in a club environment. Quite often they would be double A side, so 2 different club mixes… hence “radio edit” “club edit” “dub edit” etc etc
I still have a good quality cassette deck, but I got rid of 99 percent of my cassettes when we downsized. I still have a few. My spouse wants me to get rid of the player. Sigh.
Sigh, indeed. I don’t have any cassettes (maybe on me or two in a suitcase in the attic)! At one point, years ago, every possible empty spot in my car was loaded with them…
The income debacle for musicians is shameful. Streaming business models have to be changed. Shoot, as little as artists make on Spotify, that company doesn’t even make a profit. Nobody is winning!
I think what is most shameful is the fact the internet had (hopefully/maybe still has) so much potential. The playing-field on which artists and record companies do business could have / should have been levelled by now. There was (maybe still is) potential for all parties to make a decent living… However, that still hasn’t happened. That’s shameful.
The reason/s? So complex, I’m not going to try to touch on that in detail here — but the key factors are greed and power (again)!
Most independent artists I personally know make their money from playing live (including physical merch), session fees (so playing on other people’s recordings), and… BandCamp!! They make most of their money from BandCamp (not streaming services)… however BandCamp got sold twice in the past two years… so let’s see what next…
Yes on all points. Add to the problem that major radio stations rarely break artists in favor of formulaic playlists from number crunchers, and what is the path to success for indies? Sure, touring 50 weeks a year is a huge factor, but that’s not always an option (ex: parenthood or autoimmune disease).
Being a record company A&R scout/ exec used mean being in the risk business, you had to take a risk on an unknown artist and trust your hunch… now it’s all about social media stats / likes / followers / profile… the risk element has gone. Being media savvy seems to have trumped being creative and artistically talented.
I haven't watched the Mary Spender video, but I can comment on your last question - do people have cassette players anymore? I actually do, but haven't played any of the couple hundred cassettes I still have (mostly mix-tapes) in over a decade. But I've bought a few cassettes this past year from artist friends who've been selling tapes of their new music. It's probably mostly a nostalgia factor, but I love the tactile aspect, and although the liner notes are too small to read with my eyesight, I am hoping that the recent return to physical media will only grow, especially as streamers keep raising their subscription rates.
I also like that cassettes are small and I can buy them at concerts and not have to lug around a large LP while at a crowded show. So that's a factor too. Maybe someone should be selling walkmans (walkmen?) at shows and music events. Perhaps this is already happening.
Walkmans… (has to be, although that whole name is probably sexist now 🤷♂️).
Agreed. A little of what you say Mary S covers. Tactile. Small. Nostalgia (for some).
And mixtapes, that’s a whole other topic. I guess I could make a 100 song Spotify playlist list (and share it with thousands of people I don’t know…) in under an hour… doing that with a cassette, wow, that was a labour of love, and quite often those tapes were just for one special person or your best besties. If someone gave you a personal mixtape, well, you knew they really dug (digged 🤔) you… you felt special!
I would support CDs if the prices didn't get artificially inflated like they did in early 2000s, creating their own downfall. Cassettes have a nice nostalgic vibe, but the audio quality is really wanting, and they don't last very long. Both CDs and cassettes do allow "play through listening" though which Spotify sort of killed.
Yep. All true. Don’t suppose you remember MiniDiscs? We’re kind of a cross between a v small CD and a Cassette (as in they were inside their own square platen). Digital. Pro-quality audio. Recordable. Over-writable. Protectable (as in you could lock them and also prevent copies being made). And the players were the size of a Walkman (so super portable, on the go tech). They just never really caught on — personally I never understood why 🤷♂️
She makes a good point with the economics and the privacy issues.
I wonder about the economics of CDs and vinyl, and whether that's a possibility for a DIY artist (which most artists are today). A lot of us still have CD players, and records players have made a comeback. Some people have massive vinyl collections.
I regret loading my CDs onto Apple Music and then selling them. Mistake!
Personally, from my point of view, as a artist (albeit very part-time and low profile now) I’d rather make 50 real connections with real people (selling my vinyl, CD, cassette, T-shirt — so physical merch), than constantly monitor my Spotify streams hoping they may one day reach 100,000, without any real connection with any of those 100,000… The idea that someone bought and owns and (hopefully) enjoys something I created is much gratifying on so many levels, in particular — connection.
If I think back to the first phase of digital, when it became possible to store and play audio files (so songs/albums), the key attractor for me personally was the de-cluttering part of this — not having to store hundreds or thousands of cassettes, vinyl and CDs. It was definitely a trade-off because from word go my ears could hear the difference between an analogue recorded vinyl album and a digitally recorded CD, the latter had a harsh sonic crunch that I found uncomfortable to listen to. Also I liked the interference you got from a stylus on vinyl, not so much the hiss on low quality cassettes (but this you could manage with metal tape, Dolby and a calibratable deck).
Now my hearing is pretty shot, especially hi-end frequencies, so bring it on, give me those hissy cassettes, I probably won’t notice 😂 🤷♂️
Thanks for that personal take. I've thought about going back to vinyl, but can I ask if there's a difference between old vinyl records and the new ones they're putting out? Are they issuing the same version or a remastered version?
I'm wondering if it's worth it to pay extra for an old version from a quality and authenticity viewpoint. I've seen some in second-hand stores but they can be pricey.
Ditto here on the hearing front -- I've got tinnitus in one ear so I hear hissing anyway.
Ditto to the tinnitus — both ears 👂 What to do?
On the sonic quality question. I think you have to do it on a case-by-case basis.
A lot of remastered albums are absolutely terrible! Some are amazing! Sorry that I can’t give a finite answer on that. As a rule of thumb I’d go for the original. Remastering can mean that an original analogue master that was specifically mastered for vinyl has been digitally remastered for CD. On a CD there is literally (almost) no limitation on loudness or bandwidth — so the remastered audio could be a lot louder, bassier, brighter, fuller than the original. It could also have a lot of harsh digital artefacts. Probably you and I can’t now here these, but your body will definitely feel them.
Nowadays (so 2024) digital mastering is much better than in 2010 (around which time so many albums were remastered).
Also it depends on what you listen to your music on? What quality system you have (eg quality of analogue/digital converters)? What speakers you have? How loud you listen? Maybe you only use headphones?
One solution (but it is a real techy/expensive solution) is something like SoundID Reference (Google it)— basically it’s a microphone and software that you use to tune and tailor your system’s speaker and headphone output to the room you listen in, it calibrates the speakers so their response is totally flat in the room you listen in (same for most pro-level headphones).
This is crucial to hearing what a song/piece of music really sounds like! I use it, it’s great. It even can compensate for my hearing loss (eg boost the frequencies I struggle to hear). Like I said — expensive and techy, but it works!
I should also add, this question also depends upon what the original mastered track was intended for?!?! A lot of singles were mastered and cut for radio airplay, which quite often had a very restricted acoustic range in terms of sound frequencies. So the track would be masters to sound good/passable in that restricted sonic zone on a small speaker. It may sound terrible on, for example, night club speakers
The same (but opposite) is true for dance music designed for club speakers not a small FM radio!
Again, I think the only way is to listen to each remastered track/album and see if you personally prefer it! 🤷♂️ .
Never thought of this before (a single's a single's a single), but I wonder if, Nic, a U.S. white label promo 45 (meant for labels to service radio) was separately pressed to be (as you say) compressed for the (mostly) car speakers they were, largely, going to be heard through.....and,
retail-specific singles were, then, pressed with multiple, at-home plays in mind. If I were to take a stab at a cost-efficient answer, I'd guess they were all pressed in the same plant, with just one of two possible labels slapped on (white promo or standard-issue street label).
But, your answer made me question that approach: As we know (and, as I can vouch for selling my collection of albums and 45s 2 dozen years ago), a white label promo anything held a noticeable premium for collectors....because far fewer were pressed than the retail version.
There is no definitive answer to this, however, here are some guidelines. All relating to vinyl
Mostly 12” LPs were mastered for average home HiFi speakers (mostly, some LPs were mastered for large super high quality enthusiast speaker systems...)
So a white label of an LP would probably be the same as the commercial version.
Most singles (taken from an album) would have different compression, equalisation, and possibly even length (so usually shorter) to the LP version. They were still aimed at average home HiFi Speakers, but because they ran at 45rpm (not 33rpm) on a 7” disc there was usually a bit less volume and frequency bandwidth available (so singles were shorter, quieter, and possibly not with such a full range of frequencies as the LP version).
Quite often a single 45 7” white label would be the same mastering as the single. BUT not always — as you say sometimes there was an even shorter version for radio DJs, sometimes with a shorter intro, no solo, and no outro fade so the DJ could fade or crossfade themselves. Quite often these shorter white labels had much more compression, were louder, and had a really narrow broadcast frequency range (think old school car speakers).
This changed quite a bit in the mid to late 80s. The trend to do multiple mixes of a single started.
Also club music started to really become a thing. So there were specific mixes aimed at huge club speaker systems. Usually on 12” 45rpm, so much longer, louder, with wider frequency range. So these white labels were aimed at club DJs (not radio).
Around the same time there were also 7” single 45rpm white labels done of a single for club DJs, promo copies, to get them to test the track in a club environment. Quite often they would be double A side, so 2 different club mixes… hence “radio edit” “club edit” “dub edit” etc etc
All so useful! I have saved this comments section for reference. The tech stuff stymies me, so thanks very much for your expertise, Nic.
I still have a good quality cassette deck, but I got rid of 99 percent of my cassettes when we downsized. I still have a few. My spouse wants me to get rid of the player. Sigh.
Sigh, indeed. I don’t have any cassettes (maybe on me or two in a suitcase in the attic)! At one point, years ago, every possible empty spot in my car was loaded with them…
The income debacle for musicians is shameful. Streaming business models have to be changed. Shoot, as little as artists make on Spotify, that company doesn’t even make a profit. Nobody is winning!
Agreed.
I think what is most shameful is the fact the internet had (hopefully/maybe still has) so much potential. The playing-field on which artists and record companies do business could have / should have been levelled by now. There was (maybe still is) potential for all parties to make a decent living… However, that still hasn’t happened. That’s shameful.
The reason/s? So complex, I’m not going to try to touch on that in detail here — but the key factors are greed and power (again)!
Most independent artists I personally know make their money from playing live (including physical merch), session fees (so playing on other people’s recordings), and… BandCamp!! They make most of their money from BandCamp (not streaming services)… however BandCamp got sold twice in the past two years… so let’s see what next…
Yes on all points. Add to the problem that major radio stations rarely break artists in favor of formulaic playlists from number crunchers, and what is the path to success for indies? Sure, touring 50 weeks a year is a huge factor, but that’s not always an option (ex: parenthood or autoimmune disease).
Being a record company A&R scout/ exec used mean being in the risk business, you had to take a risk on an unknown artist and trust your hunch… now it’s all about social media stats / likes / followers / profile… the risk element has gone. Being media savvy seems to have trumped being creative and artistically talented.
Absolutely. Think of all the merit-based talent we’re missing out on in favor of social media skills.
I haven't watched the Mary Spender video, but I can comment on your last question - do people have cassette players anymore? I actually do, but haven't played any of the couple hundred cassettes I still have (mostly mix-tapes) in over a decade. But I've bought a few cassettes this past year from artist friends who've been selling tapes of their new music. It's probably mostly a nostalgia factor, but I love the tactile aspect, and although the liner notes are too small to read with my eyesight, I am hoping that the recent return to physical media will only grow, especially as streamers keep raising their subscription rates.
I also like that cassettes are small and I can buy them at concerts and not have to lug around a large LP while at a crowded show. So that's a factor too. Maybe someone should be selling walkmans (walkmen?) at shows and music events. Perhaps this is already happening.
Walkmans… (has to be, although that whole name is probably sexist now 🤷♂️).
Agreed. A little of what you say Mary S covers. Tactile. Small. Nostalgia (for some).
And mixtapes, that’s a whole other topic. I guess I could make a 100 song Spotify playlist list (and share it with thousands of people I don’t know…) in under an hour… doing that with a cassette, wow, that was a labour of love, and quite often those tapes were just for one special person or your best besties. If someone gave you a personal mixtape, well, you knew they really dug (digged 🤔) you… you felt special!
Typo: a lot of what you say (not a little)
Wow! Time to get a cassette player installed in my car! Let's help the artists!
Yep. Remember that lean down into the passenger footwell whilst driving trying to find that cassette right at the bottom the pile…
Yes! We lived on the edge!
Thank you for the restack, very much appreciated.
I would support CDs if the prices didn't get artificially inflated like they did in early 2000s, creating their own downfall. Cassettes have a nice nostalgic vibe, but the audio quality is really wanting, and they don't last very long. Both CDs and cassettes do allow "play through listening" though which Spotify sort of killed.
Yep. All true. Don’t suppose you remember MiniDiscs? We’re kind of a cross between a v small CD and a Cassette (as in they were inside their own square platen). Digital. Pro-quality audio. Recordable. Over-writable. Protectable (as in you could lock them and also prevent copies being made). And the players were the size of a Walkman (so super portable, on the go tech). They just never really caught on — personally I never understood why 🤷♂️
Typo — they were (not we’re)